The Boar's Head Tavern

John H — Wed, 16 May 2012 15:23:25 +0000

Jason: Sorry to hear about that. Though the only thing I knew about Cornerstone is that Michael spoke there in 2009.

Michael’s IM posts on Cornerstone ’09 are here:

(Please note that I can’t confirm that the videos in the last two of those posts are working, as I’m at work and they’re blocked.)

one last time

Jason Blair — Wed, 16 May 2012 14:23:21 +0000

You know those times when you read or witness something that strikes you dumb, making you feel like you’ve been kicked in the gut? I read an announcement last night like that.

This is to be the last year of the Cornerstone Festival.

They made the announcement first via email, and it was reported on the Cornerstone Guide. The announcement made their Facebook page late last night.

I lost count, but I’ve been to 12-13 past Cornerstones. We haven’t gone in recent years with the adoption, but bought tickets for this year. I’m glad we did. I baptized my wife in the lake there. I got to meet Michael Spencer in person there. There are good memories too numerous to name. Even though I haven’t attended recently, I’ve followed the news of the fest. It seems they’ve struggled in the past couple years, especially financially, so this shouldn’t be a surprise, but it is.

So one last time, if any of you would like to do a BHT 3D at the only Christian festival I can think of that’s still worth attending, this is your last shot. I’d love to save some camp-site space for you to pitch a tent and hang out for a week.

interesting

Jeremiah Lawson — Wed, 16 May 2012 04:18:46 +0000

So it’s kinda the same slippery slide on either side of the divide. That’s not too surprising.

Justin — Wed, 16 May 2012 02:09:52 +0000

Oddly enough, I’ve heard it more from married men than others. I’ve heard some slippery slope thinking on this more than once, the implication being that the carpool to lunch together will result in you resigning in disgrace one day. I’m sure there’s a more sane approach between this and the sitcom view that you can be best friends (and even live!) with your ex, and your girlfriends/wife’s problem with it is a character flaw on her behalf.

And unrelated, but an unintended result of prayer has been becoming far more aware of my own sin. Grace keeps looking bigger every time.

never heard of Brennan

Jeremiah Lawson — Tue, 15 May 2012 18:54:07 +0000

but it interests me to read he’s going so far to defend what seems like so pedestrian a point, that men and women can be friends even if both parties are married … but not to each other (if I’m understanding his point correctly).

I’ve heard guys say men and women can’t ever be friends, they tended to be unmarried guys. I don’t imagine there’s any reason for that (sw).

John H — Tue, 15 May 2012 10:07:18 +0000

Justin: I agree that Billy Graham was very wise to adopt that rule for himself. As I recall, it was prompted by previous scandals involving evangelists – and was certainly vindicated by subsequent scandals involving (tel)evangelists.

Meanwhile I’ve noticed that the author’s blog seems to be perpetually on the defensive, and he seems to have concluded that he’s right because of this. Hmm…

LOL. I find blogs like that exhausting… :-)

Justin — Mon, 14 May 2012 22:20:58 +0000

What Chris might be referring to is sometimes called The Billy Graham Rule: The idea that Billy Graham wouldn’t be alone with a woman that wasn’t Ruth. I totally understand his reasoning for it, and I think it was rather wise of him to adhere to this when he was such a public figure.

I’ve yet to read much of the book in question, but I’m not so certain that this is all just Freudian paranoia from Evangelical Christians. Like many others I have friendships with people on the opposite sex who are married, but I also made a point of befriending their husbands when they got married — not because I never thought that there’d be something inappropriate, but because out of respect for him.

Meanwhile I’ve noticed that the author’s blog seems to be perpetually on the defensive, and he seems to have concluded that he’s right because of this. Hmm…

Chris Hubbs — Mon, 14 May 2012 14:04:02 +0000

John H, of course I can’t find the link now that I really want it, but I clearly remember reading the instruction that, to be safest, I should never have a closed-door meeting with a woman.

For at least half of my 13-year tenure with my current employer, my immediate supervisor has been female, which of necessity entails some number of closed-door meetings, if only for mid-year and end-of-year performance reviews. I have no doubt I’d do more damage to my credibility and reputation by refusing to close the door than I would be closing it. So yeah, I think that the “above all else, be cautious” position can go to some crazy extremes.

I can’t see as I’d ever be going on a road trip with a female friend, though – nor can I imagine that I’d have cause or inclination to.

John H — Sat, 12 May 2012 22:30:09 +0000

Chris: thanks for that. I think my comment was specifically aimed at the “week-long road trip together to speak at the Wild Goose conference”, which seems to me to be asking for trouble.

we instruct our men to never be alone with a woman that isn’t his wife.

Really??? Wow. I think that’s a bit extreme the other way.

And churches shouldn’t have rumour mills. (Yes, I know, that’s an incredibly naive statement. But still correct.)

Friendship and such

Chris Hubbs — Sat, 12 May 2012 18:45:12 +0000

Goodness! Whatever for? (not actually jn)

Because Brennan’s call for embracing close friendships of all varieties and combinations feels right to me at heart, and I am sympathetic because of my personal history.

Ever since I was a child my best friendships have been with girls (and, as I aged, with women). I’m 35 years old and can safely say I don’t have one close friend that’s a guy. I’ve had a couple of pretty good guy friends over the years, and I have three younger brothers who I love dearly but am not particularly close to, but my best friends – the ones with whom I’d have the most significant conversations, would hold up the most in prayer have always been female.

Maybe I’m overestimating my youthful maturity, but even in my teen years I recognized that I loved these friends, but had no language available to me to express that. Guy/girl relationships, per Freud, can only lead to romance, and the conservative community that we lived in made it very clear that that sort of language wasn’t appropriate.

Now as a married man, the default position of the church is that I can’t have any relationship beyond a casual acquaintance with any woman, which means that, given my apparent built-in tendency to befriend women over men, I am limited to having no close friends beyond my wife. There are two women in my current church who I believe I could be very good friends with – one my age, one a decade older, both of them friends with my wife, neither of whom do I have any sort of romantic inclination toward. But because our communities have gone the “safe” route, neither of these potential friendships will likely ever be able to flourish.

Now yes, yes, there are potential dangers. I understand that, given the culture of the church today, we instruct our men to never be alone with a woman that isn’t his wife. And yet it saddens me, because I don’t think it has to be this way.

However, this is something that would require a full community to buy in to if it were to have a chance of working. Onesy twosie, and without strong leadership support, it’ll just crank up ye olde rumor mill and cause trouble.